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Lost Erfahrungspunkte: 658.645
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| Stellungnahme eines Bad Robot Mitarbeiters |
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Ich bin auch mal fremd gegangen und hab im ABC Forum bisschen rumgestöbert, da ist mir folgender Thread aufgefallen, den Link findet ihr hier
Ich habe leider noch nicht die genaue Quellenangabe vom Posting herausfinden können, da nur jedes Board zitiert, aber ich poste hier mal den kompletten Beitrag:
| Zitat: |
Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...
First ...
The Island:
It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.
Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.
Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.
Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.
Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.
In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...
Now...
Sideways World:
Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.
The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.
It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.
How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.
But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.
They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).
A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.
But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.
For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.
In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding. |
Ich hoffe diese kleine Erläuterung hilft dem einen oder anderen, das Finale und die ganze Serie mit anderen Augen zu betrachten. Ich weiß aber nicht 100%ig, ob auch wirklich ein Mitarbeiter von Bad Robot diese Erläuterungen verfasst hat.
__________________
What or who the hell is Smokey?
Sawyer would answer:"Son of a bitch!"
Wieso kann man die Insel nicht als Favoriten auswählen?
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25.05.2010 16:13 |
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nickelchen
Mitläufer
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Lost Erfahrungspunkte: 180.576
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Das klingt zumindest logisch. Ich kann mich mehr und mehr mit dem Ende anfreunden.
__________________
Vor mir müsst ihr nicht knien. Es reicht, wenn ihr mir die Füße küsst.
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25.05.2010 16:25 |
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WodanBlog
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Lost Level: 34 [?]
Lost Erfahrungspunkte: 576.078
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| Zitat: |
Original von nickelchen
Das klingt zumindest logisch. Ich kann mich mehr und mehr mit dem Ende anfreunden. |
100% Agreed. Danke! Und es ist eig egal ob es ein bad robot Mitarbeiter ist (wäre nur dsa Sahnehäubschen)
__________________
Smokey: Well this is gonna be interesting.
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25.05.2010 16:32 |
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Station7
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Lost Level: 46 [?]
Lost Erfahrungspunkte: 5.887.326
Nächster Lost Level: 6.058.010
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| RE: Stellungnahme eines Bad Robot Mitarbeiters |
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Vielen dank! Ich könnte mir vorstellen, dass dieser Text vielen hier hilft, "The End" zu verstehen und auch zu mögen. 
__________________
No one can tell you why you’re here. . . Certainly not me.
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25.05.2010 16:38 |
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RuFFnaX
Strandbewohner
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Lost Level: 34 [?]
Lost Erfahrungspunkte: 658.645
Nächster Lost Level: 677.567
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Themenstarter 
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Wie ich im Episodenthread schon schrieb: die letzte Folge hieß "the end" und nicht "the answers"! 
__________________
What or who the hell is Smokey?
Sawyer would answer:"Son of a bitch!"
Wieso kann man die Insel nicht als Favoriten auswählen?
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25.05.2010 16:51 |
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Just 4 toes...
Holzsammler
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Lost Erfahrungspunkte: 336.701
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Also irgendwie finde ich das Ende mittlerweile richtig gut. Allerdings hätte es trotzdem noch eine Menge Dinge gegeben, die man nicht so mysterös hätte gestalten sollen um dann einfach mal gar nichts darüber zu sagen. Naja, egal, das Ende ist einfach nur perfekt. So und nicht anders hätte es enden dürfen!!
__________________
"Stupid place to put a mirror..." - Jack
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25.05.2010 16:59 |
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Pasadena
Robinson Crusoe
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Lost Erfahrungspunkte: 7.292.411
Nächster Lost Level: 8.476.240
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Wow - langer Text, der aber mehr als lesenswert ist.
Finde das Finale auch immer besser... 
__________________
No more Happy Endings...
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25.05.2010 17:38 |
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Station7
Anderer
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Lost Level: 46 [?]
Lost Erfahrungspunkte: 5.887.326
Nächster Lost Level: 6.058.010
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| Zitat: |
Original von Pasadena
Wow - langer Text, der aber mehr als lesenswert ist.
Finde das Finale auch immer besser...
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Es sei dir verziehen, dass du etwas länger brauchtest. Schließlich ist "Team MIB" ja der große Verlierer im Finale gewesen. 
PS.
Team Vincent nimmt immer noch Mitglieder auf.
__________________
No one can tell you why you’re here. . . Certainly not me.
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25.05.2010 17:42 |
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Pasadena
Robinson Crusoe
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Lost Level: 48 [?]
Lost Erfahrungspunkte: 7.292.411
Nächster Lost Level: 8.476.240
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| Zitat: |
Original von Station7
| Zitat: |
Original von Pasadena
Wow - langer Text, der aber mehr als lesenswert ist.
Finde das Finale auch immer besser...
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Es sei dir verziehen, dass du etwas länger brauchtest. Schließlich ist "Team MIB" ja der große Verlierer im Finale gewesen.
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Tja, hat wohl nicht sollen sein.
| Zitat: |
PS.
Team Vincent nimmt immer noch Mitglieder auf.
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Na dann. 
__________________
No more Happy Endings...
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25.05.2010 18:55 |
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Station7
Anderer
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Lost Level: 46 [?]
Lost Erfahrungspunkte: 5.887.326
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| Zitat: |
Original von Pasadena
Na dann.
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__________________
No one can tell you why you’re here. . . Certainly not me.
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25.05.2010 19:41 |
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Dr Chang
Höhlenbewohner
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| Zitat: |
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Jetzt versteh ich endlich, warum immer so viele einen weißen Smokey wollten. 
__________________
The world is full of smoke monsters - there is a smoke monster in all of us
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25.05.2010 19:46 |
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LostTraumatisch
Höhlenbewohner
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Lost Level: 37 [?]
Lost Erfahrungspunkte: 1.035.480
Nächster Lost Level: 1.209.937
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| Zitat: |
Original von Pasadena
| Zitat: |
Original von Station7
| Zitat: |
Original von Pasadena
Wow - langer Text, der aber mehr als lesenswert ist.
Finde das Finale auch immer besser...
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Es sei dir verziehen, dass du etwas länger brauchtest. Schließlich ist "Team MIB" ja der große Verlierer im Finale gewesen.
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Tja, hat wohl nicht sollen sein.
| Zitat: |
PS.
Team Vincent nimmt immer noch Mitglieder auf.
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Na dann.
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Du immer mit deinen ganzen Drogen 
...
Ab heute nenn ich Deine Mittelchen mal ATL-Beschleuniger .
Dazu passt ja auch, daß Du jetzt ein prima Purge-Kandidat bist.
Aber keine Sorge, danach geht es weiter 
Trotzdem Glückwunsch zum Rang aus dieser Timeline 
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25.05.2010 19:55 |
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oxoxo
Verschollener
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Lost Erfahrungspunkte: 239.108
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eins sehe ich anders. Für mich war Kate die grosse Geheimwaffe von Jakob. Er schickte sie von der Insel um sie zu schützen. Er strich ihren Namen durch um für MIB sie aus der Kandidatenliste zu nehmen. Überhaupt war die Kandidatenliste völlig überbewertet wurden von MIB und ein Trick von Jakob.
Ohne Kate hätte MIB Jack getötet. Deshalb denke ich das Jakob nie die Kandidaten einzeln betrachtet hat, sondern wusste das sie nur als Team die Aufgabe erledigen können. Ich denke das sich MIB dem nicht bewusst war.
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25.05.2010 20:00 |
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Pasadena
Robinson Crusoe
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Lost Level: 48 [?]
Lost Erfahrungspunkte: 7.292.411
Nächster Lost Level: 8.476.240
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25.05.2010 20:04 |
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misskitty
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Hier bin ich Schätzele 
Ich komm hier nur nich zum Tanzen vor lauter lesen^^
__________________
[ X ]Team Vincent
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25.05.2010 20:57 |
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Pasadena
Robinson Crusoe
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Lost Level: 48 [?]
Lost Erfahrungspunkte: 7.292.411
Nächster Lost Level: 8.476.240
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| Zitat: |
Original von misskitty
Hier bin ich Schätzele
Ich komm hier nur nich zum Tanzen vor lauter lesen^^ |
Ah, da isse ja endlich.
__________________
No more Happy Endings...
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25.05.2010 21:03 |
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misskitty
Inselgolfspielerin
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Lost Level: 41 [?]
Lost Erfahrungspunkte: 2.294.371
Nächster Lost Level: 2.530.022
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| Zitat: |
Original von Pasadena
| Zitat: |
Original von misskitty
Hier bin ich Schätzele
Ich komm hier nur nich zum Tanzen vor lauter lesen^^ |
Ah, da isse ja endlich. |
Jop
Hat ewig gedauert bis ich meine Klamotten am Strand zusammen hatte :d
__________________
[ X ]Team Vincent
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25.05.2010 21:15 |
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Pasadena
Robinson Crusoe
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Lost Level: 48 [?]
Lost Erfahrungspunkte: 7.292.411
Nächster Lost Level: 8.476.240
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| Zitat: |
Original von misskitty
| Zitat: |
Original von Pasadena
| Zitat: |
Original von misskitty
Hier bin ich Schätzele
Ich komm hier nur nich zum Tanzen vor lauter lesen^^ |
Ah, da isse ja endlich. |
Jop
Hat ewig gedauert bis ich meine Klamotten am Strand zusammen hatte :d |
Wollte sie Station7 schon wegrauchen?
@DJMicki: Egal, ob das echt ist oder nicht, sind es sicherlich interessante Erklärungsansätze. Und ich denke ja schon, dass ein Mitarbeiter auch Einblick in die Gedankenwelt der Macher gehabt hat. Ich finde den Beitrag jedenfalls schlüssig.
__________________
No more Happy Endings...
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25.05.2010 21:19 |
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Success
Außenseiter
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Lost Level: 26 [?]
Lost Erfahrungspunkte: 110.729
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Amen. Jetzt wird vieles klarer. Ich hab nur den einen Part mit JJ nicht ganz verstanden. Was hat er von Anfang an geplant? Und in der Kirche waren nur Person aus der ersten Staffel weil das Drehbuch schon am Anfang so fest stand ... Naja wer's glaubt...
__________________
Team MIB (X) ..... Es hat nicht sollen sein.
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25.05.2010 22:04 |
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Pasadena
Robinson Crusoe
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Lost Level: 48 [?]
Lost Erfahrungspunkte: 7.292.411
Nächster Lost Level: 8.476.240
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| Zitat: |
Original von Success
Amen. Jetzt wird vieles klarer. Ich hab nur den einen Part mit JJ nicht ganz verstanden. Was hat er von Anfang an geplant? Und in der Kirche waren nur Person aus der ersten Staffel weil das Drehbuch schon am Anfang so fest stand ... Naja wer's glaubt...
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Es war von Anfang an geplant, nur die Leute in der Kirche zu versammeln, die auch zum Main-Cast gehörten und dazu gehörte Ben am Anfang nicht, weil nur eine kurze Rolle für ihn vorgesehen war. Und das wurde halt bis zum Schluss nicht mehr geändert.
__________________
No more Happy Endings...
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25.05.2010 22:10 |
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LostTraumatisch
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Lost Level: 37 [?]
Lost Erfahrungspunkte: 1.035.480
Nächster Lost Level: 1.209.937
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| Zitat: |
Original von Pasadena
| Zitat: |
Original von Success
Amen. Jetzt wird vieles klarer. Ich hab nur den einen Part mit JJ nicht ganz verstanden. Was hat er von Anfang an geplant? Und in der Kirche waren nur Person aus der ersten Staffel weil das Drehbuch schon am Anfang so fest stand ... Naja wer's glaubt...
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Es war von Anfang an geplant, nur die Leute in der Kirche zu versammeln, die auch zum Main-Cast gehörten und dazu gehörte Ben am Anfang nicht, weil nur eine kurze Rolle für ihn vorgesehen war. Und das wurde halt bis zum Schluss nicht mehr geändert. |
Für mich auch kein Problem, den Ben gehörte einfach nicht zum Kreis der Losties .
Umso cooler, daß er noch eine Liebesrunde mit Danielle einlegen kann und sich mit schönen Locke & Hurley-Dialogen verabschieden konnte
Viele Grüße
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25.05.2010 22:20 |
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Success
Außenseiter
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Lost Level: 26 [?]
Lost Erfahrungspunkte: 110.729
Nächster Lost Level: 125.609
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Mich würde nu interessieren ob die Produzenten wirklich gedacht haben, ja lassen wir 48 Personen mit einem Flugzeug auf einer Insel abstürzen und lassen sie dort allerhand Sachen erleben. Eine Gruppe davon freundet sich an und deren Erlebnisse schweißen sie so eng zusammen, dass diese gemeinsamen Momente die wichtigsten in ihren Leben werden. Deshalb kann diese Gruppe von Menschen aus den Sideways nur zusammen weiterziehen.
Klingt eigentlich ganz plausibel, wenn man an das eigene Leben denkt teilt man die bedeutenden Momente auch nur mit einer Hand voll Menschen.
__________________
Team MIB (X) ..... Es hat nicht sollen sein.
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25.05.2010 22:43 |
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